March 2025 Housing Market Update: Are Price Declines Coming?

Dave:
Your actual property shopping for window is open. Properly, perhaps that’s proper. The housing market is softening after a number of years of supreme vendor energy. Potential worth declines is usually a boon for actual property traders trying to negotiate, however additionally they create danger if you happen to purchase on the mistaken second. So which approach is the housing market heading and how are you going to take most benefit in your personal portfolio? At the moment I’m supplying you with my March, 2025 housing market replace. Hey everybody, it’s Dave head of Actual Property investing at BiggerPockets, and if you already know me, I imagine being a profitable investor is about studying and repeatedly enhancing in your expertise. Issues like deal discovering, tenant screening, managing rehabs, all that stuff is tremendous essential. However you additionally want to know the broad developments which can be occurring within the housing market to be able to optimize your portfolio to seek out the perfect offers and to keep away from any pointless ranges of danger.
For that reason, I like to offer a abstract of what’s going on within the housing market and I additionally like to offer my private evaluation and skim on the state of affairs. I’ll even let you know what I’m fascinated about and doing with my very own portfolio. That is for March, 2025. So developments could also be completely different if you happen to’re watching this slightly bit additional into the long run. Now I wish to simply say that I’ve been analyzing the housing marketplace for a really very long time. I’ve been an investor for 15 years. I’ve been working at BiggerPockets for 9 and proper now issues are altering just about as shortly as they ever have and that makes it extra essential than ever to know what’s occurring to your personal portfolio and reaching your monetary targets. Alright, so let’s discuss this softening market and what it truly appears like within the numbers and naturally what it means to you.
Now if you happen to have a look at sure web sites like Redfin, you’ll see that residence costs are up 4% 12 months over 12 months in keeping with what information they’ve collected and after they seasonally alter it. Once you have a look at a number of the different information sources, there’s a supply known as the Case Schiller Index and that makes use of a special methodology the place it principally tracks how the worth of the identical residence change over time. And what you see whenever you have a look at the case Schiller is it’s a lot nearer to flat. And so we’re most likely in someplace in between these two. There’s no good measure, however we’re most likely flat-ish housing costs perhaps up slightly bit relying on what market that you simply’re taking a look at. So that’s in no way any form of correction or crash at this level. It’s additionally not likely thrilling information when it comes to appreciation, however I believe the essential factor right here is that the development is simply actually flat or slightly bit down.
We’re not likely seeing appreciation or worth progress begin to speed up once more. And so that is simply one of many causes I’m saying that the market’s flat. Now to know if this development goes to proceed or if we’re going to see the market reverse in some form of approach, we to dig in slightly bit deeper, go one stage decrease to attempt to perceive why the market is considerably flat. And I all the time discuss this, however we’ve got to do it. We received to speak about provide and demand. That’s what dictates costs within the housing market. And so we have to see what’s occurring with provide, which is simply what number of properties are on the market at any given level or how many individuals are itemizing their properties. And we received to take a look at demand. How many individuals wish to purchase properties? Let’s begin with the provision aspect.
There’s actually good information about this. It’s slightly bit simpler. So we’re going to speak first about one thing known as new listings. It is a measurement of how many individuals put their properties up on the market in any given month, and that’s up 12 months over 12 months. It’s up 6% in keeping with Redfin, which is nice in some methods, however it’s not loopy, proper? We’ve seen actually low stock and to return to a more healthy housing market, there should be extra properties listed on the market. And so having that go up, at the very least within the brief time period is mostly seen as factor, however you must look not at simply how many individuals are itemizing their properties on the market. You even have to take a look at how lengthy these properties are staying in the marketplace as a result of in the event that they’re getting listed and going shortly, then costs can maintain going up.
But when extra issues are getting listed this 12 months than final 12 months they usually’re simply sitting there and not likely promoting, then costs are most likely going to go flat or go down as a result of as property house owners who wish to promote their property are seeing their properties simply sit there in the marketplace week after week or month after month, they decrease their worth or they’re keen to supply concessions. And that’s what finally pushes costs down. And what’s occurring proper now’s that energetic listings are up 10% 12 months over 12 months. And once more, that’s not loopy as a result of we’ve got to take a look at the historic context right here. So that you would possibly know this, however again in 2019, energetic listings have been averaging someplace round 2.3, 2.4 million. Then throughout the pandemic they went right down to 1.6. We truly bottomed out at 1.1 million and though they’re going again up proper now, they’re nonetheless at 1.5 million, they’ll most likely go up over the summer time and get someplace near 1.9 million.
In order that they’re going up, however they’re nonetheless not at pre pandemic ranges. And that’s one of many primary issues as we discuss in regards to the housing market that you could keep in mind is after we evaluate what’s occurring now to what was occurring throughout the pandemic, it’s not the perfect comparability truthfully, as a result of what occurred throughout the pandemic was simply so uncommon. So to say, oh my god, stock has gone up in comparison with the pandemic. After all it did as a result of it was like in any respect time lows. I personally like to take a look at that also, however in comparison with 2019, and so we’re seeing issues come again nearer to pre pandemic ranges, however we’re not there but. And so that is the rationale why I’m saying that the market is softening. It’s again to the place it was. I might even say it’s simply form of a normalization of the market, however as a result of we’ve gotten used to this tremendous heated market that’s very tight, there are usually not lots of issues in the marketplace, there are nonetheless lots of demand.
And so issues are transferring actually shortly. That’s why I’m saying it’s softening as a result of we’re simply transferring again to a extra balanced housing market. So that you undoubtedly see that within the energetic listings numbers. You see that in another information that you could have a look at for this stuff like days on market, these are going again up or months of provide. These are simply different methods to measure the housing market. We don’t have to get into them in the present day, however what it’s best to most likely know is that the entire measures of housing market well being are simply saying that we’re getting nearer again to pre pandemic ranges of the stability between provide and demand. Now after all, what I’ve been speaking about to this point is in regards to the nationwide housing market, however there are big regional variations. We’re truly seeing lots of indicators that the market is form of splitting. Some markets are rising in a single route, others are going within the different route. So we’re going to interrupt down these regional variations in only a minute. However first we’ve got to take a fast break. And this week’s larger information is delivered to you by the Fundrise Flagship Fund, spend money on non-public market actual property with the Fundrise Flagship fund. Take a look at fundrise.com/pockets to study extra.
Welcome again to the BiggerPockets podcast. We’re right here doing our March housing market replace. Earlier than the break, we talked about how lots of the info means that the nationwide housing market is transferring to a extra balanced market, a extra purchaser’s market, however that isn’t occurring all over the place within the nation. So let’s simply take a minute right here and discuss how stock adjustments are completely different in several areas of the nation. First issues first, what you could know is that each single state within the nation is experiencing will increase in stock besides North Dakota. North Dakota is down 2%, all over the place else is up. That is simply 12 months over 12 months since 2024 in February to 2025 in February. And once more, I’m recording this in early March. So the final month that we’ve got information for is February. The state that has the very best shift in stock during the last 12 months is Nevada.
We see California at 44%, Arizona at 41%. Vermont is up there, Hawaii is close to 50%. In order that’s occurring all over the place the place if you wish to know regionally the place issues are occurring within the least, it’s largely within the northeast and the Midwest. So I mentioned North Dakota, that’s form of an outlier, however New York for instance, solely up 3%. New jersey’s 9%, Illinois is 9%. So it’s form of a continuation of the developments the place the most popular or the strongest housing markets, I ought to say are within the Midwest and the Northeast. A number of the weaker ones are within the mountain west and west coast and the southeast as properly. Georgia’s up 37%, Florida’s up 34%. That’s simply at a state stage. However given what I used to be saying earlier than in regards to the utility and usefulness of evaluating information from this previous 12 months to the 12 months prior, it’s useful. We have to realize it as a result of you could know the way the market’s altering.
However I additionally like to offer this context of how issues have modified since earlier than the pandemic as a result of that can actually give us some clues about the place costs are heading in any given market. And whenever you have a look at the info this fashion, it is extremely, very completely different. Bear in mind I simply mentioned that every thing’s going up 12 months over 12 months as a result of it was tremendous low. However after we have a look at how February, 2025 compares to February, 2019, it’s a reasonably completely different story. We’ve sure markets the place we’re nonetheless nowhere even near the degrees of stock that we have been at in 2019. After I have a look at a state like Pennsylvania, it’s down 50%, nonetheless over 2019. Maine is down 61%. New Hampshire, 61%, Illinois, 63%, nearly all of it’s concentrated within the Northeast and the Midwest. So Wisconsin, Michigan, Virginia, all of those states are actually down. Really Alaska’s down too.
That’s form of the one one which’s on the market apart from North Dakota. Once more, these are form of essentially the most considerably down, however even all through the remainder of the nation, most states are nonetheless down in comparison with pre pandemic ranges. If we have a look at the Carolinas, California, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, all of them are nonetheless down. So that’s form of the large image factor that it’s best to consider is that though stock is returning, most states are nonetheless down in comparison with pre pandemic. In order that they’re nonetheless not again to what can be thought-about a traditional market. There are 4 states, nevertheless which can be above pre pandemic ranges. The primary with essentially the most stock progress above pre pandemic ranges is Texas. It’s 15% above the place it was in 2019. Then comes Florida with 9% above Colorado at 7%, and Tennessee truly with 2% as properly. So once more, the regional variations actually matter, and I’m speaking about states.
I can’t get into each particular person metro space on the podcast, it’s simply an excessive amount of to do. However what my advice for all of you is to take a look at these two issues to your particular person market as a result of even inside Texas which has rising stock, there are specific markets and there are specific neighborhoods the place stock remains to be down. Or if you happen to have a look at Pennsylvania, which has 50% declines in stock, I’m positive there are nonetheless neighborhoods in areas the place stock is rising. So I actually advocate you have a look at two issues in your market. Go and evaluate stock ranges proper now in February of 2025 to the place it was final 12 months, see how a lot that’s rising after which evaluate it to 2019 and also you’ll get a way of how shortly the market is shifting from that basically sturdy sellers market. That was form of common for years again to what can be a extra regular form of stability form of market.
So what does this all imply? The stuff I mentioned and the analysis it’s best to most likely be doing by yourself as properly. Any market the place stock goes up quickly has the most important probabilities of worth progress slowing. And in some markets that imply it’d go from 10% appreciation to five% appreciation. In some markets that may imply six to 2. Some markets it’d imply going from flat to damaging. And so it actually is determined by the dimensions of the stock adjustments and what’s occurring in your specific market. However as a complete, simply going again, zooming again out to the nationwide stage, I do assume that given stock is rising and demand hasn’t picked again up, at the very least within the final couple of months, we’re going to see additional softening. And that is a kind of explanation why I’ve mentioned repeatedly that I do assume costs shall be perhaps modestly up this 12 months or someplace close to flat, particularly whenever you evaluate these issues to inflation, they could be slightly bit damaging based mostly on the info that we’re seeing right here in the present day.
Now once more, that isn’t going to occur in each market and what which means for actual property traders isn’t as apparent as you assume. Declining costs are usually not essentially a foul factor. Lots of people, I’d say perhaps even most traders assume that’s truly factor. So we’ll discuss extra about what a softening market means, however we form of have to handle one different huge factor earlier than we get into what it’s best to do subsequent, which is after all mortgage charges. Mortgage charges have been within the information lots and as of this recording, they’ve dropped down to six.64% for a 30 12 months repair, which is down practically 0.6% from the place they have been. They’d shot up all the best way to 7.25%. They’ve come down lots and that’s typically excellent news for actual property traders. However after all the rationale that is occurring is as a result of there’s unhealthy financial information.
So we’ve got to dig into this slightly bit and form of unpack what’s occurring and what this implies. So why have charges fallen a lot during the last couple of weeks? We’ve talked about this in different episodes, you’ll be able to go hear about it in additional element, however we’ve seen a bunch of sentimental financial information. The very first thing was we had low client sentiment. We truly had the most important month over month drop in 4 years. It’s not like that is going loopy, it’s decrease than it was over the previous few months, however it’s just about in step with the place it’s been from 2022 to 2025. However after the election, client confidence had been rising and that has reversed itself during the last couple of weeks, and that decline in client confidence worries traders. And so we’ve seen some weak point within the smooth market. I’ll get to that in a second.
The opposite factor that we’ve seen is an uptick in unemployment claims. There are many methods to measure unemployment. That is one I wish to measure as a result of it principally appears on the variety of layoffs. And so we’ve seen layoffs begin to tick up. Once more, nothing loopy, however these are simply small issues that begin to spook the market, proper? And what we’re speaking about after we discuss mortgage charges is actually how bond traders and inventory traders are reacting to all this information. And proper now, given the extent of uncertainty on this planet, given the extent of uncertainty within the markets, individuals are very delicate. They’re reacting fairly dramatically backwards and forwards to all of the information that they’re getting. And so little adjustments in unemployment claims, little adjustments in client sentiment are most likely impacting markets greater than they might if this was 10 years in the past in the midst of only a regular financial cycle.
So that’s two issues which can be occurring. And so there’s truly one factor that has occurred during the last simply two weeks that I believe has additional spooked traders, not tariffs. These are form of apparent. That’s undoubtedly one thing that’s been weighing on individuals’s thoughts. However one thing that I believe received misplaced within the shuffle over the previous few weeks is that there’s this instrument known as the GDP Now instrument. It’s put out by the Atlanta Fed, and it principally predicts the place gross home product goes to go for the present quarter that we’re in. When you don’t know what GDP is gross home product, it’s principally the entire measurement of financial output and it’s tremendous essential, proper? If the financial system is rising, that’s typically factor for the US. If the financial system contracts, which means individuals’s high quality of life spending energy is mostly happening.
And anyway, what occurred was the Atlanta Fed instrument, which has confirmed to be very correct traditionally, has modified its prediction. Simply two weeks in the past it was predicting 2% progress for GDP, which isn’t nice. It’s not like a tremendous quarter, however it’s not unhealthy. It’s form of similar to a traditional form of quarter. It principally plummeted and the estimate now went to about damaging 2.5% and has held there for 3 consecutive weeks. And so now they’re predicting that GDP is definitely going to say no right here within the first quarter of 2025, and that’s tremendous vital for all the explanations that I simply talked about. So between softer client sentiment and uptick in unemployment claims, softer GDP projections, uncertainty round tariffs, this has simply principally spooked traders and it has led to a big inventory market selloff. We’ve seen the NASDAQ was down 10% at sure factors, which is correction territory.
That’s a major decline. We’re principally seeing all the increase within the inventory market that we noticed after the Trump election erased we’re again to principally the place we have been earlier than the election. And what occurs for actual property traders for mortgages is when individuals dump their inventory market, sometimes what they do is that they take their cash they usually put it in bonds. And I’m not speaking about me. If I offered off a few of my inventory, I most likely wouldn’t go do that, however we’re speaking in regards to the huge cash movers. Individuals who handle pension plans or hedge funds, they should put that cash someplace. And so after they take it out of inventory market, they sometimes put it into bonds as a result of they’re seen as protected after they’re spooked about what’s occurring within the inventory market or the financial system as a complete, they take the cash, they put it in bonds, and that will increase demand for bonds as a result of everybody desires them.
And that pushes down yields, proper? If lots of people wish to lend cash to the federal government, the federal government can borrow that cash at a decrease rates of interest. That’s yields coming down. And since yields and mortgage charges are nearly completely correlated, that can take mortgage charges down with them. And so that’s the reason mortgage charges have come down. After all, nobody is aware of for positive what will occur, however I’ll provide you with at the very least my opinion and what I’m fascinated about and doing with my very own portfolio. However first, we’ve got to take a fast break. We’ll be proper again. When you’re desirous to get began in actual property investing, a sensible first step is to accomplice with an investor pleasant monetary planner who can assist you get your home so as and make sure you’re arrange for monetary success from the get go to biggerpockets.com/tax finder to get matched with a tax skilled or monetary planner in your space.
Welcome again to the BiggerPockets podcast. We’re right here doing our March housing market replace and the place we left off, I used to be going to attempt to make sense of this complete state of affairs and share with you what I believe this all means. Now, all the info, every thing that I’ve shared with you, the long run and route of the housing market to me is basically about financial sentiment. And that principally simply sucks as a result of it’s onerous to foretell, proper? I’m sorry, however I do know different influencers, creators, they’re going to let you know definitively what’s going to occur, however they’re deceptive. I’m an analyst and the one factor I can let you know with certainty is that proper now issues are significantly unsure and that’s crucial factor to recollect. It’s okay to your investing thesis or speculation to be that it’s unsure. It’s higher to confess that than to behave on a false interpretation or false certainty since you don’t actually know.
However right here’s how I’m personally seeing this. It appears to me that financial pessimism is gaining steam and other people may have completely different opinions about what’s going to occur sooner or later. I’m taking a look at information, I’m taking a look at developments, and that is what the info exhibits. It exhibits that investor confidence is down, the inventory market is popping, the housing market is beginning to soften, and does that imply we’re going to a recession? I don’t know. I believe it’s far too early to say that the GDP now factor is only one estimate, however I’m simply telling you that the change from the place we have been in January to the place the info was in February is fairly vital. There was lots of financial optimism in December and January that has shifted in February and it’d shift again, however proper now it does really feel like financial pessimism is gaining steam.
And for me, there are a pair issues to remove from this. The very first thing that has been coming to my thoughts not too long ago is that if we enter in a recession, and once more, that could be a huge if, however one thing I’ve been fascinated about is might this form as much as be what’s kind a traditional financial cycle the place actual property is the quote first in first out, if you happen to haven’t heard of this, there’s this sample that has existed in lots of recessions prior to now the place issues are going off nice, we’re in an enlargement, companies are booming, the inventory market’s going up, every thing is nice, individuals are taking out debt. At a sure level, the financial system begins to overheat and that results in inflation. At that time, the Federal Reserve raises rates of interest, proper? Sound acquainted? That is what’s been occurring. And when the Federal Reserve raises rates of interest, it impacts actual property first.
And I’m not saying this simply because this can be a actual property podcast, however actual property is simply principally essentially the most leveraged asset class. And truly as we’ve seen during the last a number of many years, it’s turn out to be actually form of by itself in how leveraged it’s, which principally means it makes use of essentially the most debt. And positive individuals take out debt to finance buildings and manufacturing and expansions for companies, however actual property is basically extremely leveraged. And so that you see actual property bear the brunt of a recession truly at the start else. And if you happen to’re on this trade, you’ve been most likely saying this and screaming that we’re in an actual property recession for the final two or three years, transaction quantity has been down, costs have been largely flat, proper? We’ve form of been in an actual property recession for some time. However what’s been wonderful is that different elements of the American financial system has remained resilient regardless of these larger rates of interest.
And for one purpose or one other, perhaps that resilience is cracking proper now and it’s reverting again to what we’d’ve anticipated that the remainder of the financial system is beginning to really feel a number of the ache of upper rates of interest. In order that’s form of the traditional begin of a recession, proper? Actual property comes first after which the remainder of the financial system comes second. However then what occurs when the remainder of the financial system begins to decelerate? Properly, the Federal Reserve desires to stimulate the financial system. They’re not as afraid of inflation, so that they decrease rates of interest, and that provides a stimulus first to actual property, proper? As a result of it’s a leveraged asset class. In order these charges begin to come down, it kickstarts financial exercise, significantly in the actual property part, and that may truly assist lead all the financial system out of a recession. And actual property is large enough.
It’s a large enough a part of our financial system to each assist carry the financial system right into a recession. And out of it, it’s estimated to be about 16% of GDP. That’s big for anybody trade. Now, if you happen to’re considering that’s not what occurred in 2008, that’s undoubtedly true. It’s form of the exception to this sample, and we don’t know what’s going to occur. However the perception amongst most economists is it didn’t occur in 2008 as a result of not like this present time in 2008, housing was the issue. That’s what created the recession within the first place. Whereas proper now, housing isn’t the issue. Housing, lots of the basics are basically sound. What’s occurring with housing is known as a response to rates of interest. And so what I see rising is probably this primary in first out state of affairs. That’s most likely what I believe is the most definitely situation as we’re taking a look at it in the present day.
I believe there are two different issues which can be attainable that I’ll simply point out, however I believe they’re much less probably. So the second factor that may occur is perhaps that is only a blip in financial information and there’s truly going to be sturdy progress and other people regain their confidence, during which case we’ll most likely see mortgage charges return up slightly bit. I don’t know in the event that they’re going to return as much as 7.25, however they’ll most likely return up once more. By which case, I believe the housing market will proceed on its present softening trajectory. Once more, I don’t assume which means a crash. It most likely means corrections in sure markets the place different markets are going to continue to grow. However I believe we’ll proceed on the development that we’ve been on for the final couple of months. So that could be a second chance. It’s not that unlikely, it simply doesn’t seem to be the most definitely situation.
After which the third one, I don’t assume that is so probably proper now, however truly whenever you have a look at a number of the information, there’s a little little bit of danger proper now of what’s generally known as stagflation. And once more, I don’t assume that is what’s occurring simply but, however I simply wish to name it out as a result of it’s attainable. Stagflation is when the financial system slows down, however inflation goes up. That is principally the worst case situation for the financial system, however we’ve got seen inflation go up slightly bit then it’s form of flat, so it’s not tremendous regarding simply but. However there’s a world the place inflation goes again up resulting from tariffs. And the GDP now instrument is appropriate and GDP declines, during which case we’d have a very tough financial state of affairs the place the financial system is contracting, however inflation goes up, and that’s principally the worst case situation.
Spending energy goes down, however wages aren’t going up, the inventory market goes down. And so though that’s attainable, I wouldn’t fear about that simply but. It’s simply one thing that I needed to say that we’ll keep watch over within the subsequent couple of months. In order we do these updates each single month, I’ll replace you and allow you to know if that’s a priority. There’s some information developments that recommend it’s attainable, however I believe we’re nonetheless a far approach off from concluding that that’s occurring. So let’s simply return to what I believe is the most definitely situation, which is form of this primary in first out state of affairs with actual property. Does that imply that it’s probably time to purchase actual property, proper? As a result of don’t get me mistaken, when markets are softening like they’re, that comes with danger.
There’s additional danger that costs are going to say no. And I’ve mentioned it earlier than, however there’s lots of rubbish on the market. There’s lots of unhealthy offers, overpriced stuff on the market, and issues might worsen earlier than they get higher. However there’s additionally a case that in at the very least some and perhaps many regional markets {that a} shopping for window might emerge. Take into consideration the situations that we would have over the following couple of months. Extra stock coming in the marketplace results in worth softness, which supplies you negotiating leverage, proper? As a result of if you already know that costs are smooth they usually could be declining extra, that’s one thing that try to be utilizing in your bid technique. And whenever you’re providing on properties, attempt to purchase beneath asking worth or what you assume the market would possibly backside out at. So that provides you negotiating leverage. Bear in mind I mentioned softening it sounds scary, however that really means we’re in a purchaser’s market.
Patrons have the ability. In order that’s one good factor you may not wish to purchase even in a purchaser’s market, if you happen to assume that that purchaser’ss market’s going to proceed for a very long time and we’re going to have this form of protracted interval of costs happening. However do not forget that costs have been largely flat or rising modestly over simply the final couple of years. And so we’ve seen this for some time. And if the present financial temper is appropriate and that we’re going to see a contracting financial system, that signifies that charges would possibly keep as little as they’re now they usually might go down slightly bit extra. And if that situation occurs, that would carry demand again into the housing market. Individuals usually assume that if the financial system is doing poorly and there’s a recession that causes decrease housing demand, however that isn’t all the time the case.
Housing demand is sort of all the time tied to affordability. And so sure, if you happen to don’t have a job, you’re not going to be going on the market and shopping for a house. However for individuals who really feel safe of their jobs, this would possibly truly result in higher housing affordability. If the market softens and charges go down, which means extra individuals are going to have the ability to afford extra properties. That drives up demand and will truly reignite worth appreciation within the housing market. That’s not what occurred in 2008, keep in mind, that’s an outlier. However that is what usually occurs. So it’s one thing I’ll be conserving an in depth eye out for, and I like to recommend you do too. Personally, I’ve been searching for offers. I’m all the time searching for offers. I haven’t discovered something to this point but this 12 months. I’ve supplied on some, haven’t been in a position to make it work, however I’m perhaps surprisingly optimistic in regards to the potential for deal circulate over the following couple of months and within the second half of this 12 months.
I believe that proper now, we’ve been speaking lots this 12 months about this potential for upside. And whereas there’s danger, don’t get me mistaken, there’s danger in these sorts of markets. That upside is there and would possibly even truly be rising all through 2025 as a result of if charges do come down and you’ve got the chance to barter higher costs on homes, that would set the stage for actually good upside and future progress. In order that’s how I’m seeing it. I might love if you happen to’re watching this on YouTube to tell us how you’re decoding this housing market and what choices you make about your personal portfolio. Thanks all a lot for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets podcast. I hope this housing market replace was helpful to you. We’ll see you subsequent time.